PLDT is Breaking its Contract

Discussion in 'DSL & Info Tech News' started by alray10, Jun 6, 2006.


  1. alray10

    alray10 Member




    PLDT is Breaking its Contract

    Ever had PLDT say they can’t supply you with DSL.
    Sick of using 385Kbps for a price the rest world pays for 8 to 10Mbs.
    Think you can’t do anything about it? WRONG YOU CAN.

    PLDT is under a franchise agreement laid down by the HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES under the National Policies and Objective.
    PLDT is clearly breaking this in many ways and could ever lose their franchise or be heavy fined.

    THE POLICIES STATE
    Within this context, the following national policies shall be pursued:
    a. To ensure fair and equitable provision of a wide range of affordable and universally accessible services over a comprehensive and efficient national infrastructure using the best available and most appropriate technologies which are vital to nation building and development;

    In granting authority to an entity to engage in the provision of services under this
    Act, the Commission shall require the entity to prepare an industry development plan which sets out a service provider's commitments to undertake a range of specific activities that contribute to the fulfillment of the national policy objectives, the development of the Philippines' communications sector and the economy as a whole.
    Communications service providers shall not be allowed to provide network services acquired from network service provider, unless the requirements set forth in Section 9 and other provisions in this Act are satisfied.

    IS PLDTDSL UNIVERSALLY ACCESSIBLE? No many areas have no DSL even not far from Manila and they limit the line.

    DO PLDT PROVIDE AN EFFICIENT NATIONAL INFRASTRUCTURE? We all know they do no where near this.

    ARE PLDT USING THE BEST AVAILABLE AND MOST APPROPRIATE TECHNOLOGIES WHICH ARE VITAL TO NATION BUILDING AND DEVELOPMENT? This requirement has to be the most important and PLDT does not come anywhere near fulfilling it they offer a slow out of date service. That loses foreign investment every week in the Philippines.

    TIME TO SORT PLDT OUT.
    WRITE TO THE REPUBLIC OF THE PHILIPPINES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES QUEZON CITY, METRO MANILA
    TELLING THEM THAT PLDT ARE NOT MEETING THEIR FRANCHISE AGREEMENT AND ASK THEM TO MAKE SURE ACTION IS TAKEN TO EVER MAKE PLDT FULL FILL THE AGREEMENT OR REMOVE THE FRANCHISE FROM THEM
     
  2. duhwho

    duhwho staff Staff Member




    by the way, DATA service such as DSL is not part of the franchise granted by the government only Telecommunication. Although, NTC provide Provisional Authority for that Service.

    However, it boils down to... do the government care.. eh mag cheat nga ok lang sa kanila..hehehe dont worry sasabihin lang ni PLDT "I'm sorry" hehehehehe

    charing! :)
     
  3. alray10

    alray10 Member




    Data Services such as DSL are also covered by the franchise.
    Do the Government care they will if enough people write to them and Imme R Marcos is also trying to make them come in to line.
    I am sure that much of the Government is unaware how bad PLDT are and how much better they could be.
    They would also be concerned if they realised it is losing them millions of peso every day in foreign investment.
    I am in fact a foreigner that was going to invest in your country but could not because of the bad internet there I have know invested in Thailand instead.
     
  4. duhwho

    duhwho staff Staff Member




    nope. any company can offer DSL without the need to request for franchise. Like Tridel, Philonline, I-manila etc... in fact ISP did not have to get franchise from the congress. Only provisional authority from the NTC.


    its your prerogative if you want to invest here or not... but if internet is bad here then we would not have BPO here such as Contact Center. That requires that kind of insfrastructure.

    whats with Imee Marcos?
     
  5. alray10

    alray10 Member




    I think you are miss reading the franchise the franchise covers communications services. The wording in the franchise is “Communications services” whether between persons to persons things and things, or person and things in the form of sound, data, text, visual images, signals or and other form or any combination of those forms.
    DSL is data so it is covered in the agreement.
    In some of the many conversations I had with PLDT while I was in your country. When I quoted the franchise agreement to them they even admitted they are in breach of it. but in their words they are working slowly to meet the agreement. Working slowly that means by time they catch up how it should be at present they will still be 5 years behind.

    It was not my prerogative not to invest in your country it was forced on me by the bad communications mainly Internet in your country as it is by many other westerners that have tried. Hardly a week goes by when I don’t meet a westerner here in Thailand that tells me they also first tried the Philippines but gave up as it was a nightmare.

    The big companies may get better service than us small business men but you need both for the Philippines to prosper, and if you compare how many Large International companies are located in the Philippines you are a long way behind many Asian countries.

    Have you ever been outside the Philippines and used the Internet I can assure you if you did you would realise how slow it is there, how bad the service is and how expensive it is for such a slow service.
    When you consider you pay the same for 385Kps as the UK pays for 8Mbs and when you consider people in your country earn about 10 times less than people in the UK for doing the same work and prices as a whole are 10 times less than in the UK it means you are getting a very bad deal.

    Of cause it is up to you if you are happy paying a high price for low speed but it is sad to see people in your country suffer because of lack of investment.

    The real answer is let foreign companies give PLDT some competition see how fast they would respond to that.
     
  6. duhwho

    duhwho staff Staff Member




    RA 3436 AN ACT GRANTING TO THE PHILIPPINE LONG DISTANCE TELEPHONE COMPANY A FRANCHISE TO INSTALL, OPERATE AND MAINTAIN A TELEPHONE SYSTEM THROUGHOUT THE PHILIPPINE ISLANDS

    When I say DSL is not part of franchise, it is not explicitly express base on your argument above.

    The ACT was granted in 1991, dial-up back then in the Philippine was not even popular.

    DSL was value added or enhanced services.

    However, PLDT is liable to different laws such as Consumer Protection, and NTC'S Public Convenience or it laws governing granting Provisional Authority.

    Because under Section 2 of the RA 3436, PLDT is hereby requested to secure or obtained first a certificate of public necessity and convenience from the National Telecommunication Commission (NTC) prior to engage in construction or exercise its rights under the francise act.

    I know how lag our technology behind some other asian countries. And frankly, PLDT is not only the sole responsible for any under development.

    Government has a big share in nation building from policy making, taxes and custom duties (in particular acquiring technology outside), dollar ratio, etc.... which cause slow down... (as you mention they working it slowly)

    Well, Im happy to say that I find a provider wherein i pay 899 for 256kbps with burst speed to 500kbps during 10pm-10am or even beyond... no downtime no slow time... and this is not PLDT. However, I also wish that my 899 would be 600kbps more in the near future.

    they have and they are not only 1...however hopefully there will be a law preventing PLDT or its subsidy in buying out or merging with other services companies.
     
  7. tong2x_

    tong2x_ Member




    in my opinion, you two are probably right.

    let just say DSL does not require a franchise but inorder to have a DSL service you must have a telco franchise. you can't just setup a company and offer DSL on copper wires without offering other basic telco services. you could probably tie up with a telco something like Bayantel and skyDSL.

    Dialup is different since they are actually using the services of a telco. more like a thirdparty service (something 1-800 services, you call them and they provide service which is actually the data being transfered)
     
  8. duhwho

    duhwho staff Staff Member




    The basic argument here is that RA 3436 was granted to PLDT extending its franchise for another 50 years (nationwide) in setting up Telecommunication Facilities. As such the law only requires both by congress and the NTC that every entity like Globe, bayantel, PLDT, Digtel must satisfy them by providing adequate telephone facilities remember the PLDT Backlog then, that was part of the new franchise to Zero the Backlog to reach the highest possible Telephone User Ratio so that everyone can be reach by means of telephones.

    DSL is a emerging technologies in terms of Data Services. And yes, anyone can setup a DSL however when PLDT introduce DSL here they did not allow thirdparty to setup as oppose to what is happening in the US, DSL became TELCO centric.

    However, unlike Bayantel, they can put up DSL even in the non-franchise area because Bayantel offer DATA alone DSL, thats why Bayantel can service DSL in Makati CBD and Ortigas CBD although mostly in Business Center due to limited financial if you going to lay down cables for the entire Makati and Pasig.

    However, any company with Financial Backup can roll down cables for DSL only in any cities nationwide without the need to seek congress approval.

    Data Services, Like DSL and Wireless DATA only requires NTC Provisional Authority because this is not YET a basic necessity and are not consider National Security because this is LAST MILE service however it requires public convenience approval like any Product or Services from government agency of course subject to DTI and BIR.

    However, Telecommunication, Broadcast Radio and Satellite Services requires Franchise for the reason of basic necessity and national security.

    :)
     
  9. tong2x_

    tong2x_ Member




    "And yes, anyone can setup a DSL however when PLDT introduce DSL here they did not allow thirdparty to setup as oppose to what is happening in the US, DSL became TELCO centric."

    how was PLDT able to "oppose" thirdparty providers if as you have said it is clearly written in the provision/LAW/R.A. that (as you have wrote) anyone can setup DSL service without the need for a telco franchise? or was it NTC that is not providing the NTC Provisional Authority to other thirdparty providers?
     
  10. duhwho

    duhwho staff Staff Member




    I have not said anything about a law regarding DSL? In fact there is no LAW governing DSL Technology. Ask the PISO or the organization of Philippine Internet Service Provider, they already brought this matter to the NTC and Congress regarding PLDT monopoly of DSL service, by not allowing PISO member before to use the telecommunication facilities of PLDT for their DSL.

    However, I dont know if the dispute between PLDT and group of ISP's has been resolve. As of now, Globe and Bayantel allow other ISP to use the telecom insfrastructure to provide DSL service, like I-Manila, Mozcom, Philonline etc, but not cheap price hehehehe....

    but then again, likewise I said, if they have FINANCIAL BACKUP then can lay their own cable.

    In short parang Destiny that allow Belltel to use the cable for their Icable Services. Belltel did not anymore lay its own cable due to not feasible or not financially viable to cover the entire Metro Manila so they make an agreement with Destiny instead. By the way, Belltel also has DSL but limited to areas like Ortigas and Makati.

    :)
     
  11. duhwho

    duhwho staff Staff Member




    NTC can its up to the company if they can shell out money for the insfrastructure.

    :)
     
  12. tong2x_

    tong2x_ Member




    What I meant was, what was PLDT using as an excuse or tactic to stop other company from setting up DSL only service? was it becuase NTC is not providing the neccessary provisional permit or is their anyother requirement beside financial requirement.
     
  13. alray10

    alray10 Member




    Answer this is DSL data or not if it is data it is covered by the franchise.

    You think 889 Peso for 256Kbps is OK, I am sure you would rather have 10Mbs for the same price, let me explain in most countries there is no DSL as slow as 256Kbs they start at 1Mbs, for about 900peso in Europe you would get 1 to 2Mbs, but when you consider everything costs ten times more and wages are ten times more, it means in real terms they pay 88 peso for 1 to 2Mbs that is not a typo it really does work out at just 89peso.

    I can not understand why you are defending them they hold your country back they keep your country in poverty they provide a poor and slow service, why defend this.

    They are letting the Foreigners in to run it no they are blocking them every way they can because a few rich Filipinos now that if foreign companies were aloud to run things like that and use the national infrastructure, they would have to spend money to keep up they would have to start providing a good service they could no longer make out their snail like internet was fast.

    PLDT buying out the foreign owned internet providers GET REAL you cant tell me you really think PLDT could buy out AOL, Yahoo or Wannadoo to name a few.
    Merge you say! Philippine law prevents foreign companies owning more than 40% and if you think any of them would settle for a 60 to 40 merger in the favour of PLDT you’re a comedian.
    They could have a partnership and that would be great as BT the British equivalent of PLDT has with Yahoo.
    What a dream that would be PLDT would be kicked up its backside so hard they would not be able to sit down for a month, can you see Yahoo letting PLDT give it a bad name with bad service.
    What is PLDT and I don’t mean this as a knock to your country I mean it Just at PLDT.
    PLDT is a third world phone company with a phone system that is 10 to 15 years out of date.
    PLDT as an internet provider is not even third world many third world countries have better it is rolling out technology that is 5 years out of date before they install it.
    Why because they have no real competition and they don’t want to invest in helping your country.
     
  14. tong2x_

    tong2x_ Member




    all consumers here would want 8mbps conenction for only 89 pesos, no question about it.

    there is competition, when I started my DSL service with PLDT in 2004, I was paying Php 3000.00 for a 256kbps. now I am paying the same amount but at 1.4mbps. but that does not mean I don't want Php 89.00 @ 8mbps, I would love that to happen.

    there is a point in not allowing foreingers to own more than 40% (also for lands). foriengers have sufficient finance and if allowed to own a company what do you think will happen? will Philippines still be called Philippines if most companies and lands are own by foriengers (in my city, there are alot of foriengers with huge lands, now imagine if there where no law against that. one month salary in the us could probably buy you hectares of land already)? yes this is pesimistive point of view, and forieng companies just want to sincerly invest to improve our country, economy and way of life.
     
  15. RocK

    RocK Member




    I think the issue here is the natsy service offered by PLDT or any corruption envolve, as to how consumers would want to look it forward for competation to foreign companies, that's not the concern of every filipino, quality service is our aim, and competition? forget about it, for any foreign counrty its easy to buy PLDT or the whole philippines in a $ price, but that 40% limit is meant to preserve the filipino culture where in its land died our beloved heroes, if foreingers take our lands 100% so do they take our culture, for us culture can not be bought buy $, tell me am a comedian if your country does sell it in $. :mrgreen

    The best help that a foreign counrty can help philippines now is not by investments, it will only improve body fats development on our fellow leaders. Instead help us to choose a good leader, and encourage our leaders to be righteous in their service, not that bec. our president is active to support anti terrorism, they forget to look on real essence of good governance.
     
  16. alray10

    alray10 Member




    OK I can see your concern about foreign companies, but most of you would I am sure like the Philippines to prosper and be as rich as a country like Britain have free schooling for everyone and free hospitals. Be high tech and be up along side some of the leading countries in the world.
    Britain is a country like this and who owns the companies anyone that is willing to invest for example Heathrow airport the busiest airport in the world just been brought out by a Spanish company was this met with OH my god they are buying up our country no it was met with I hope it works better under them.
    Then take Manila a brand new airport stood empty why the government can’t afford to pay the bills no company can afford it or are prepared to take the risk. So why not let a foreign company take it on and run it. Say that and its OH my god we cant let a foreign company run the biggest airport in the Philippines we would rather it stood empty and cost the country millions everyday.
    So why is it different in Britain because we see it so much, hospitals built and run by foreign companies high tech, clean and still free to everyone. Motorways, bridges, road tunnels, power companies, internet companies, telecommunications companies, gas companies, the list is endless.
    But we are still British still proud of it still a rich nation foreigners do not rule us. We the British rule the country and they just invest it helps us they make money, it creates jobs and them companies pay taxes and the people they employ pay taxes making Britain richer. Plus good services because of competition.
    Then look at the Philippines foreign companies can’t invest the way they do in Britain the law prevents it. So you have lack of investment, a lack of jobs, these two means lack of taxes being paid. The nation does not grow it stands still.
    Look at the names of directors of all the large Philippine companies and the same names keep coming up over and over again. Basically most of the Philippines is owned by a few family’s how can this be because the law is there to protect them, not protect the people or your land, it allows them to give you a bad service and keep your country from growing and coming out of poverty.
    The choice is yours stay Filipino and stay as a third world country or stay Filipino let foreign companies in and come out of the Third world and start to prosper.
    Ever way its still The Philippines still owned and run by Filipinos
     
  17. tong2x_

    tong2x_ Member




    Britains situation is different from the Philippines and one can not directly differentiate/compare. both have different colonial history and culture for that matter. none the less I understand your point and frustration with our system. it does look good that Britain allows any forienger to own a company and/or land.

    I also agree that terminal 3 should have been sold/rented to anyone willing rather wasting it by not using it becuase of some technicality which they themselves have allowed in the first place.
     
  18. RocK

    RocK Member




    As I've said a while ago"The best help that a foreign counrty can help philippines now is not by investments, it will only improve body fats development on our fellow leaders. Instead help us to choose a good leader, and encourage our leaders to be righteous in their service, not that bec. our president is active to support anti terrorism, they forget to look on real essence of good governance. "

    I dont believe foreigners who wish to invest in the philippines is mainly to help phil. prosper. Philipinos are known to be the best worker in the world and yet its labor cost or compensations for any local or foreign companies in its land are low.IF 40% ownership is not enough for any foreigner whats the reason for aiming more? Thats a great savings for any foreign companies who will invest here. If anyone knows more than what our counrty realy needs now, it is us filipinos. Although you have lots of frustration to the Philippine law, the best answer and solution is what i"ve quoted above. It is just a waste of time when you put a cake along with the cake baker together with the crocodiles.
     
  19. tong2x_

    tong2x_ Member




    Owning 100% of the company is the best case scenario for any investor (even for Filipino investor) becuase that means the company has full control. technically it is not a great savings since finacially foreiners are capable anyway (what they want is full control and full profit or loss).
     
  20. alray10

    alray10 Member




    It does not matter what leader you have because they don’t control the Philippines the people that control the Philippines is them few family’s I spoke of before. When the same family,s has major shares in water, electric, TV, telecommunications and many more major resources your Government can’t stand up against them, They control the Government the Government does not control them.
    Having foreign companies in would stop the power of these few family’s look at Thailand 10 years ago it was the same as the Philippines now its like a different world foreign companies have moved in the squats are going and nice houses being built people have more money the roads are better than European roads in many places. And you can not really say it is third world any more it is booming good internet, it has it all, the rural areas still have to catch up but it is getting there because the government is getting a lot of tax revenue.
    What’s happened in the Philippines in the last 10 years it’s stood still what will happen in the next 10 years very little. Why because them few families don’t need to invest to stay in business the law protects them.
    Yes your right the big foreign companies would not invest for the sake of the Philippines but they would be paying a large amount of tax they would employ thousands of people and they would give competition wish would mean better service.
    What does the Law do for the Philippines it stops any body challenging the dominance of this monopoly’s no one else could afford too the other big family’s never take on each other because look at the lists of the directors and you can link the whole lot of them.
    My God would that be a dream you are the only ones that produce something no one else can, it can’t come in from outside the country, don’t matter how bad a service you give how bad you treat customers they got to use you because 90% of them have no choice, however bad a service you give your going to get rich.
    There are many small business men like myself that love your country I am married to a Filipino and been going to your country for the last 10 years and the poverty breaks my heart and I would love to help, I did start a business under my wife’s name but the internet is to slow to unreliable unless I am in Makati or some where like that and I don’t want to live in a big city, and even a half hours drive out of Manila I was told I would have to go on a waiting list if I wanted any higher speed than dial up.
    I am not rich I could not buy up huge parts of the Philippines but I could bring money in to your country I could have employed people there making their life’s better I would have treated them fare and paid a good wage, yes I would want to make money but don’t we all but if I lived there worked there I would have also spent it there as I know do in Thailand and there are hundreds like me.
     
                                 

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