Digital Broadcasting in the Philippines choose ISDB-T

Discussion in 'DSL & Info Tech News' started by duhwho, Nov 14, 2010.


  1. duhwho

    duhwho staff Staff Member




    Creepy creeps.. we are busy buzzing around in the internet technology... but we miss the Digital Broadcasting technology a bit hehehe.. well its normal for a forum about DSL internet hehehe

    well here guys.. just to update everyone.. we all know we are now switching over to digital broadcast by 2015.. hence all analog broadcasting will be cease by that year.. and all broadcast media provider must now use the standard digital terrestrial broadcast set forth by the NTC.

    Now here is the news, just last June 2010... wow how many months have pass.. NTC ruled in favor of Japan's Standard ISDB-T to be used for Digital Broadcast.. (winner over against American and European Standard hehehe)...

    For now, GEMTV and NET25 is now testing ISDB-T HD Broadcast on channel 49... well you can view this if you already have ISDB-T ready TV or STB

    so guys, lets wait and see for further development from other stations like ABS-CBN, TV5 and GMA7....

    and also before considering buying a new TV.. consider the future outcome .. so if you still stay in Analog.. then you will need to have STB..in the coming 5 years (hmm most cheap TV has a lifespan of 5 years good enough) if you going to LCD/Plasma.. ensure you are go for ISDB-T Ready... else you still need to get STB.. but who cares... if you are on Cable or Satellite.. then no issue at all hehehehe

    And now the last, if you are going to buy MyPhone or Torque Phone with TV.. better buy now today.. so you can still enjoy it for 5 years... well we do hope that MyPhone and Torque or any phone will now incorporate ISDB-T receiver in the next year to come... hehehehe


    http://business.inquirer.net/money/tops ... ard-for-RP


    :D :)
     
  2. philyoh_akoh

    philyoh_akoh Member




    kung ako tatanungin i rather go for DVB-S kasi archipelago tayo and not all areas are covered with our current standard, so ganun din mangyayari kung ISDB-T na ang swerte lang ay ang mga may regional transmitter kaya may mga province tayo na abs at gma 7 lang ang nakukuha. Kung DVB-S sana ginawa the only thing to do is lease a transponder then the whole archipelago of the philippines will enjoy digital broadcast of every local channels, like what indonesia, china and many others did.

    malamang dadalawa na namang channels ang makukuha ng mga kawawang taga probinsya. bakit kaya hindi naisip ni NTC na ang pilipinas ay binubuo ng mga pulo at karamihan ay hindi naabot ng TERRESTRIAL BROADCAST nagkapera na naman sila sa kontrata malamang, kung DVB-S ginamit hindi kailanagan gumastos ng malaki ang mga tv stations para sa mga transmitter isang uplink lang para sa lahat ng mga station oks na saan mang sulok ng pilipinas laging may signal galing sa sattelite
     
  3. duhwho

    duhwho staff Staff Member




    eh yung S ibang service yun.. satellite na yun gaya ng DTH tulad ng Dream, Cignal at GSAT..

    yung T kasi pang normal terrestrial broadcast na magiging digital lang ang transmission..

    DVB-T yung equivalent nya for terrestrial broadcast which is european standard na hind pinili due to STB cost is not cheap.. di rin natin ginaya ang america na ASTC (good thing hehehe)

    kaya no problem pa rin.. kasi DVB-S is for a different type of service which is meron din naman tayo...
     
  4. philyoh_akoh

    philyoh_akoh Member




    ang point ko po is the coverage of broadcast pag T kokonti lang meron, pag DTH naman may bayad nawawala yung sense ng FTA for local channels bakit po sa indonesia libre lang ang LIVE bout ng mga boxing? sa china bakit libre lang lahat ng local channels nila using DBV-S pero dito sa pinas may bayad sa DTH.

    Philippines should be the one to have the S standard para naman hindi abs-cbn lang at GMA7 ang napapanood sa probinsya using terrestrial antenna. pansinin nyo yung mga HARDWARE store ng mga Chinese may mga cband dish sa bubong nila kasi they dont need to subscribe to a cable company or even to a DTH because they can freely get those local channels in china using satellite dish.

    in indonesia ganun din mga boxing nga eh live sa TVONE ng indonesia and that is for free no need to pay for PPV. dito sa probinsya pag wala ka cable kahit naka baron ka pa dalawa lang channel mo hehehe. sa ISDB-T gagastos din naman for the STB and antenna kaya useless yung gastos kung gma7 at abs lang din naman masasagap ng mga taga probinsya swerte lang diyan ay mga taga NCR marami sila channels.
     
  5. duhwho

    duhwho staff Staff Member




    DVB-S po ang ginagamit ng DTH dito sa pinas..

    Nasa Satellite na po ito at ng Operator kung ito gagamitin nila..

    NTC cannot regulate on how the satellite transmission be... what they regulate now is how digital terrestrial broadcasting be.. this way may common ground..ang digital transmission

    meaning isang STB lang need mo.. makaka kuha ng iba't ibang channel din naman....

    the reason why they regulate and want to use digital is for the purpose of upgrading the transmission so one broadcaster can have multiple service.. it can be 1 SD and 1 HD broadcast or 2 SD broadcast...

    and in order not use multiple STB and not to commercialize the broadcast of free.. NTC regulate and control the frequency so only one common transmission will be use and viewer like us will only need 1 common STB for ABS, GMA, TV5 or NET-25.

    Kaya sabi ng NTC use ISDB-T.. so that viewer like us will only need to buy ISDB-T STB...

    Now why other can get free local via satelite. nasa DTH provider or nasa Broadcaster na nila yun kung gusto nilang free. kasi leasing a transponder is not cheap... (for philippine company) and we cannot compel to use 1 common satellite so that peeps no need to use multiple DISH or LNB..

    The law we have is only to carry this local channels but not compel them it to be free since again transponder lease is not cheap.. imagine we have ABS, NBN, TV5, GMA, RPN9, IBC13, Studio23, Net-25 for that alone 8 channels na.. isang transponder can accomodate at max 14 channels.. so more than half na yan..

    saka its an options to use DTH unlike terrestrial..ngayon for province sake.. then we can make a law.. but the thing is we need to balance the cost of carrying this over.. or the broadcaster itself can uplink an FTA to the satellite being use by our DTH hence it will not be part of their carry but separate.. we only the one who going to configure our STB to get this channel on different frequency of the same satellite of what our DTH is using..
     
  6. vanix_09

    vanix_09 Member




    This is really cool, at least nag level na din. Ahehhe...
     
  7. philyoh_akoh

    philyoh_akoh Member




    the reason why we cannot get local channel sa mga DTH for free is profit, in CBAND i think we have rpn, ibc13, NBN, gem tv, net25 for free in different satellite. walang nag cacarry na particular DTH sa mga yun sariling uplink po ng mga stations FREE po yan try to look at this http://www.lyngsat.com/abs5.html yung mga digital clear na local channels natin yan can be recieved free sa CBAND. masyado na kasi natapalan ng pera mga mambabatas natin ng GMA7 (aka FAMILY LIFE) at ABS-CBN (AKA TFC) kung kaya mag lease ng mga hindi gaanong kumikitang channel ng TRansponder how much more ang ABS at GMA7, or baka natatakot sila na mawalan sila ng kita abroad TFC subscriber ika nga. kasi once you are in the foot print of a certain satellite you can receive that certain transmission, pero pwede solusyunan yan kaya nga may mga smart card eh kung ayaw mo na marecieve ng iba yung transmission mo.

    so ang masaklap sasabihin ni ABS-CBN sasabihin nya na "in the service of every filipino worldwide" kahit hindi naman eh d ilibre nila sana. Hindi kelangan mga DTH ang mag broadcast ng FTA kundi yung mga stations mismo.
     
  8. duhwho

    duhwho staff Staff Member




    satellite FTA its an options.. and yes there are some channels are FTA which mean you can get it without the need for DTH, if you are hobbyist and willing to get more FTA using different DISH for CBAN and STB...

    but we cannot compel local station to have a FTA over Satellite since its an options.. further, satellite broadcasting has no common ground and we cannot set which satellite and band to be use for FTA

    unlike terresterial walang third party gaya ng satellite.. once nag transmit sila kahit sino makaka sagap kaya ito ang nireregulate...

    kaya naman sila nag sabi na dapat may standard sa digital para ang STB eh hindi maging LOCK at maging OPEN sa lahat ng Channel.. otherwise if ABS wants DVB-T and Net-25 wants ISDB-T and GMA wants ASTC then ilang STB need natin..

    sa Satellite Broadcast hindi pwede mag set ng standard.. kasi may third party yun yung satellite .. di natin pwede sabihin ito ang gamitin mong satellite.. di gaya ng terresterial no need for third party.. walang satellite basta may tower sila mag emit ng signal oks na... eh sa DTH need nila satellite provider to transmit di ba..

    kung yung mga channel na yan willing to be FTA.. then dun sila sa satellite na kung saan ang DTH natin nandun at gamitin nila Ku Band kasi most DTH uses this band... so ok na yun..

    kung may presence sila NSS11 at Koreasat5 sila at Ku BAND.. makukuha natin yun just adding the required parameters sa ating STB.. no need na i carry ng DTH yun... gaya ng pag add ko ng mga FTA ng Korea channel hehehe

    kung talagang gusto nila mag free wag silang mag hintay sa DTH sila mismo gagawa ng paraan..

    eh gaya sabi mo its for profit.. pero di ba nila alam the more you are open the more viewer you can have.. the more you can demand more sa advertiser na hindi lang nationwide... kundi asia wide ka rin.. di nila maisip yun eh.. hehehe pwede silang mag singil ng mataas na presyo sa advertiser


    TRIVIA: In Singapore is it prohibit or not allowed to setup a DISH.. there is no local DTH and even so you are not allowed to pick up even FTA channel. You are force to use Cable TV or go with Terrestrial Broadcasting hehehehe...
     
  9. primus

    primus Member




    guys, let me clarify some terminology here, there seem to be a confusion here.

    DTH - Direct-To-Home - is basically a term used to identify a satellite transmission that can be received by the home viewer by using a small dish and a satellite receiver - it can be an encrypted channel (paid service) or a Free Channel (FTA) - any STB whether it only receive an encrypted channel or FTA is called DTH or as long as you can view the program being broadcast in your home.

    DTH is NOT for encrypted or paid service, it is a general term for "end-user"

    FTA - as the acronym suggest FREE-TO-AIR - basically a satellite signal that is not encrypted and you can receive it anytime with any kind of satellite receiver.

    Transponder - short for TRANSmitter-resPONDER - this is a term normally used if you are transmitting and receiving or re-transmitting information, DTH is only a receive, a VSAT is an example of transponder as it can both transmit and receive.

    if you are referring to a single channel broadcast on a single frequency it is called SCPC (Single Channel Per Carrier). A good example is the carrier 12390/V on KoreaSat5 - there is only one channel being broadcast with this carrier.

    If you are referring to a multiple channel broadcast on a single frequency is it called MCPC (Multiple channel per Carrier).

    MCPC can carry both Encrypted and FTA at the same time- there are many provider who provide a paid service and FTA on the same carrier a good example is the Dream Satellite over KoreaSat-5 - on frequency 12430/V it carries 3 channels, one is encrypted with Conax/Nagravision encryption and the other two is FTA. both channels are on the same carrier.

    another example on KoreaSat5 is the carrier 12530/H it carries 2 encrypted channels and 11 unencrypted channels or FTA's, so if you have an STB without any encryption, you can only view the 11 unencrypted channel and not the other 2 encrypted channels.

    @duhwho
    Satellite broadcasting HAS a common standard, there is no "third-Party" in satellite broadcasting

    if you think that FTA uses different band or satellite - it isn't , FTA is just a term to identify that the channel is NOT encrypted. don't mistaken FTA as a signal that needs a different satellite or band. it is the same as with all other satellite channels only without the encryption, thus Free-To-Air or Free-Channel.
     
  10. primus

    primus Member




    why indonesia and china can broadcast a free channel?? simple answer, they have their own satellite owned by both private and the government, while philippines has only one (agila 2 /mabuhay 1) it is not a sole philippine ownership, it is a joint venture between china, indonesia and philippines under PLDT - no wonder TFC has more international presence due to their own satellite, unlike GMA7, they are buying an air-time only. (correct me if i am wrong about gma)
     
  11. philyoh_akoh

    philyoh_akoh Member




    yun din ang hindi ko ma gets sa mga tv stations natin mas may wide coverage sila kung satellite hindi confined lang dito sa pilipinas kaso nga maaapektuhan kita sa TFC. kung yung MMDA nga may sariling channel slot sa AGILA2 now ABS5 binitawan na kasi ni MABUHAY Satellite ownership kay AGILA2. so ibig sabihin lang hindi ganun kalaki yung gastos sa transponder ilang commercials lang yan sambot na nila hehehehe. pwede rin namang isang uplink lang lahat ng tvstations natin yung tipong uplink like DTH company like DREAM sama sama lahat ng channels.

    sana lang pag ISDB-T magawan nila ng paraan na macover buong PILIPINAS. magkano kaya isang ISDB-T STB? sulit ba bumili nito kung dalawa lang channel makukuha mo because konti lang yung regional transmitter ng mga TV stations.
     
  12. primus

    primus Member




    one of the reason why tv station in the philippines opted for isdb-t and not dvb-s is the technical support, you need massive satellite installer personnel and and if the station will offer it as FTA, mas malaki ang lugi ng tv station for the deployment at end-users premises.

    hindi naman lahat ng pilipino ay alam ang pag-install ng satellite receivers or even if they hired someone to install it for them, it is cost prohibitive sa common pinoy.

    another factor to look at is the weather condition, more than 100 storm every year sa pinas, can you imagine if the signal went bad because of bad weather? maraming magagalit sa tv station na viewer lalo na yung viewer na walang alam sa satellite.

    another factor to consider is the satellite gears, not all Juan dela cruz can afford the STB, they can barely afford a TV let alone the entire satellite gear package.

    the way I see it, the use of ISDB-T over DVB-S is much favorable considering all factors such as economics, weather condition, deployment and other related matters to deploy satellite based broadcasting.

    the wider the coverage, the bigger audience you can get..that is true. BUT the wider it goes, the more support you need to use to grab those audience.
     
  13. duhwho

    duhwho staff Staff Member




    @primus

    yup i know FTA echos..hehehe what we I mean ganito

    bakit ang NTC hindi daw nag regulate ng satellite broadcast..kundi yung terresterial ang inatupag nila... like i said.. sa terresterial broadcast basta lang tumayo ka ng antenna it will broadcast... in short its anybody can do.. which mean it need to regulate

    eh ang satellite broadcasting is another thing or another venue.. and it will require satellite (third party) as mode of transmission meaning whether DTH ka or Broadcaster ka.. you need to get a satellite to uplink it..

    ang gusto kasi ni philyoh eh.. yung Terresterial kasi limitado lang sakop yet hindi binigyan pansin ng goberyo na mag karoon ng policy na dapat itong mga broadcaster eh mag satellite na lang tutal archipelago naman tayo.. kaso gaya ng sabi ko.. using satellite is an option and not a necessity and even not for the government to compel.. lalo na kung paano ito i transmit.. unlike terresterial... whether broadcast or radio it need itong i regulate...

    also unfortunately agila is no longer under pinoys control.. since it was sold to ABS group..

    di naman pwede i compare ang DVB-S kasi satellite transmission ito.. ang kaparehas ng ISDB-T is ang DVB-T yung terrestrial version ... kaya sabi ko satellite is another story over terrestrial.. all frequency on terresterial level is regulated whether cellular, microver etc..unlike in satellite.. ang ni reregulate lang ng goberyon eh yung content (kung pwede i commercialize sa pilipinas) at uplink nito (license lang yata).. pero kung anung satellite na gusto nila or anung conditional access gusto nila.. eh wala ng paki dun ang goberyo..

    ang gusto ng goberyon pag dating sa terresterial.. iisa lang gagamitin ng lahat.. para ang STB nito ay iisang gagamitin para free at unlock...

    and like i said and you said.. its a totally different stage or scenario for satellite broadcasting.. the wider the the more support and not cheap though.. until now cheapest box is 3.5K

    @philyo

    yung stb ng ISDB-T eh sabi nila dapat hindi lalagapas ng 500 pesos thats the reason they choose Japan version over European version due to cheapest STB....

    ang maganda sa digital eh yung capacity nito to broadcast HD at mas malawak .. na hindi magiging snowy pag medyo malayo na.. sabi nila as per technical reference... wala na tayong magagwa kung konting local channels lang mag broadcast pagdating ng digital age.. pero going digital has a lot advantage so not necessary konti lang makukuha mong channel.. like i said they can carry 1 SD and 1 HD channel.. dalawa na agad yun sa isang broadcaster.. sa iisang channel frequency lang .. marami pang advantages nun..

    +++

    ang gusto kong mangyari sa DTH natin eh yung parang DTH sa US at Europe.. lintek ang mahal pa rin sa atin at konti channel lang.. saka nakaka inis kung puro Philippine version ang i broadcast nila gaya ng Star Movies at Star World, or parang ginawa nilang local na may commercial break tapos puro commercial na same din naman sa local channel.. i mean you pay for this na parang di mo feel you are watching an ASIAN wide channel or even International Channel.. lechogas hahahaha
     
  14. primus

    primus Member




    bakit hindi mag-regulate ang NTC?? heheheh parang wala namang masyadong satellite provider sa pinas eh, for sure may regulation yan hindi lang natin alam, kasi philcomsat has license from ntc to operate, besides satellite bird has a very limited transponder eh.

    well maraming visible satellite coverage sa area ng philippines, and i think instead of building a brand new uplink station or NOC, mas maganda pa na bumili na lang ng air time sa satellite owner like what dream satellite has been doing with koreasat5.

    most likely philyoh doesn't know much what are the things involve to use satellite broadcasting, the technicalities associated with it and the cost to run it (no offense meant philyoh)

    hehehe you can't blame them to sell the ownership, agila has been poor in marketing, you can actually see the limited number of its client. hindi nga mapuno ang transponder nila eh. and the estimated lifespan ng agila is coming to its end, 15 years lang ang estimated life ng agila and this year is their 13th year.

    I for one would agree to a standard STB, para walang proprietary at hindi forced ang viewer na bumili ng proprietary stb from the tv station.

    i think the most deciding factor talaga sa mga tv station to not use satellite is the weather condition. sakit sa ulo ng tv stataion yan every time na makulimlim.

    at this time, medyo impossible pa yung gusto mo, the reason is, there are less than 10 tv stations opearator sa pinas, while sa US they are in hundreds!
     
  15. duhwho

    duhwho staff Staff Member




    saka yung sinasabi kong common ground to be use for FTA is like this

    kasi binanngit nya sa ABS5 may mga local channels dun sa CBAND na unencrypted so bakit daw yung gma at abs hindi gawin ganun

    sabi ko kung gusto nila masagap din sila eh wag sila sa CBAND dun sila sa Ku BAND kung saan yung mga karamihan na non-hobbyist ang gumagamit ng Ku Band Dish lang..

    at kung gagawa sila ng common ground eh ganire

    Dream and Cignal are two competiting DTH they use Koreasat and NSS11..

    now if these local channels really want to make it more readily available to most DTH end user.. they should uplink the same on the same satellitte being use by these DTH at sa Ku BAND

    para kaming end user will just add their Frequency Transponder and bingo we can get their satellite broadcast.. without the need for us to buy another dish and have this tutok saan satellite kung nasaan itong mga RPN9 IBC13

    sana nandun din sila kung saan satellite ang aking DTH provider.. so kung ako ay dream..na naka koreasat.. mag uplink si RPN9 IBC13 TV5 sa Koreasat then ilagay nya sa Ku Band para ako i add ko lang sila.. tapos.. so kahit walang load ako sa Dream eh mayroon pa rin akong RPN9.. kaso hindi ganun..

    second wala tayong pag asa mag unencrypt yung GMA at ABS.. asanes ka for profit yan.. kitams sa Telstra18 yata si GMA.. so paano yun need ko pa mag setup ng DISH to focus on Telstra18.. hehehehe..
     
  16. duhwho

    duhwho staff Staff Member




    @primus

    alam mo ba nung hindi pa lumabas ng regulation sa digital.. ang ABSCBN naka ready na sila sa kanilang proprietary STB .. aba lechogas talaga.. gusto pa na nilang gawin exclusive para sila lang mapanood... hayys.. buhay sa pinas.. buti na lang naging standard... para di sila kumita.. kaya nga free to air.. gusto nilang gawin fee to air hehehee

    eh di kumuha sila ng ibang channel provider.. para marami naman at yung tipong pwede kang mamili.. hindi force ka kung anung channel naka line up at kasali sa bayad kahit hindi mo naman gusto errrrggg hehehehe

    for now Cignal 250 pesos has 14 channels.. hayy 9 dun eh local.. tskkk.. mahal..

    tapos kung gusto mong matino tino.. cignal 590 pesos na may 29 channels na SD na viewable meaning di ko sinali ang HD nila, ang PPV at barker channel.. thats 590 pesos for dream 650 pesos eh 34 SD channels lang..

    hayyss..
     
  17. primus

    primus Member




    well, the satellite owner is limited when it comes to transponder, maski na gustuhin pa ni RPN9 at IBC13 na gumamit ng koreasat kung walang available slot that can cover the entire philippines, wala silang magagawa. yun ang technical difficulties duon eh, again, the cost is one of the deciding factor para sa mga tv stataion, mas mura sa NSS11 pero mas malaki ang coverage nila, NSS actually has 98% worldwide coverage, pero limited ang C-band nila, most of their beam are all Ku-band and other bands. sa weather situation ng pinas C-band is much favorable kesa sa Ku-band.
     
  18. primus

    primus Member




    eh di kumuha sila ng ibang channel provider.. para marami naman at yung tipong pwede kang mamili.. hindi force ka kung anung channel naka line up at kasali sa bayad kahit hindi mo naman gusto errrrggg hehehehe

    for now Cignal 250 pesos has 14 channels.. hayy 9 dun eh local.. tskkk.. mahal..

    tapos kung gusto mong matino tino.. cignal 590 pesos na may 29 channels na SD na viewable meaning di ko sinali ang HD nila, ang PPV at barker channel.. thats 590 pesos for dream 650 pesos eh 34 SD channels lang..

    hayyss..[/quote:3qdeniy6]

    hehehe ganon talaga, ako nga naka-subscribe sa showtime dito, all i wanted is discovery channels, history channels and some cartoon channels, pero sa binabayaran kong subscription fee, sang damakmak ang mga channels na hindi ko maintindihan dahil its either na indian language, arabic, or french and italian. hahaha pero i have no choice but to pay for something i don't need eh nanduon naka-package kasi yung channel na gusto ko eh.
     
  19. duhwho

    duhwho staff Staff Member




    well yun nga that is reality.. in short DTH will be an options just like a Cable TV... well so we do hope with this Digital echos eh sana mapaganda ang mga channels at mas marami pa... hehehehe

    well for now, dito muna ako sa dream kasi kahit paano.. clear ang local channels .. kaysa mag antenna ako.. plus may movie channel pa hehehe..kaso not cheap.. hayyss
     
                                 

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