God Existence!!!

Discussion in 'Chat Lounge / Im Bored' started by -SabreGod-, Jul 25, 2009.


  1. AaronICK

    AaronICK Member




    Medyo OT lang saglit ha.

    Nalalaliman na ako sa usapan dito. But I'm happy that we are able to know who among you are intelligent and who among you are wise. This is what conversation should be. Waang pikunan, walang away, healthy ang conversation. Isipin mo, isang topic lang, inabot na ng 89 pages! Mas mahaba pa sa talakayan about technology.

    Now, if I may give another point of mine. This is a question for all of us? For the atheist and the faithful. Let's cite a situation...

    Halimbawa, isang atheist at isang religious. Yung atheist, siyempre hindi naniniwala. Yung religious, naniniwala. Parehong namatay. Then by dying, they realize na walang Diyos, walang everything. End mo na. So anong nawala sa inyo pareho? WALA.

    But what if sa kabilang banda, na-realize ninyo pareho na after dying, may Diyos, may langit. Sino ngayon ang nawalan? Isa lang sa inyo. Yung isa, may nakuha. Salvation.

    I am not talking about Catholicism here, OK. I am talking about religion, in general. Be it Christianity, Protestantism, Zoroastianism, Islam, etc.

    So my point is, what does it take for you to give up everything and believe in something, something higher than ourselves? Something more powerful than everything you know?

    To see is to believe? That's old school. Blessed are those who do not see yet believe. Kasi point ko nga is, if you have a goal in life, you wanted to be in a place where everything will be OK in the end. Pero kung nabubuhay ka lang tapos ang alam mong kahahantungan mo rin ay wala, para saan pa ang pag-aaral? Para saan pa ang siyensiya? Eh lahat naman pala tayo, entropy lang ang bagsak?

    That's why even within ourselves, we have to believe in something, a goal na napakasarap makuha in the end. Kasi that's where you know that your life has a purpose, a TRUE purpose.
     
  2. primus

    primus Member




    nope, we just don't rely on our "own" level of understanding and perception, we rely on facts of science and realism.
     
  3. patchacker

    patchacker Member




    ah pero sabi nung doctor na nag examine sa kanya na after 46 years eh yung liver nya ay malambot pa at "almost normal in consistency".

    nabasa ko lang po sa
    wiki
     
  4. vanix_09

    vanix_09 Member




    No more comment na ako. :D
     
  5. primus

    primus Member




    you are actually pointing your argument as "what is at stake"

    the choice you are making is just limited to 2 choices, while there are many choices, of course a theist would restrict the choice to a very limited option just to lean the last option to having god.

    here is the atheist choices which is not limited to 2 choices

    * You may live a good life and believe in a god, and a benevolent god exists, in which case you go to heaven: your gain is infinite.
    * You may live a good life without believing in a god, and a benevolent god exists, in which case you go to heaven: your gain is infinite.

    * You may live a good life and believe in a god, but no benevolent god exists, in which case you leave a positive legacy to the world; your gain is finite.
    * You may live a good life without believing in a god, and no benevolent god exists, in which case you leave a positive legacy to the world; your gain is finite.

    * You may live an evil life and believe in a god, and a benevolent god exists, in which case you go to hell: your loss is infinite.
    * You may live an evil life without believing in a god, and a benevolent god exists, in which case you go to hell: your loss is infinite.

    * You may live an evil life and believe in a god, but no benevolent god exists, in which case you leave a negative legacy to the world; your loss is finite.
    * You may live an evil life without believing in a god, and no benevolent god exists, in which case you leave a negative legacy to the world; your loss is finite.

    there are more8 choices and the result whether you believe in god or not is just equal.

    what is our purpose in life? we might not have a purpose to ourselves but we definitely have purpose for others, it is either you have a purpose to your family, gf, bf, a friend or even to a neighbor you even don't know or we might have a purpose to an unknown person who is just standing in the corner.

    or simply, our purpose is just to accumulate a space in this universe for no other reasons and just to waste resources. - your pick.
     
  6. primus

    primus Member




    does the body went into a "scientific" way of finding the answer? a medicine doctor is not necessarily a scientist. does the church allows a scientist to perform test on it? i doubt it.
    does the body has its all internal component still soft? or just a piece of it?
     
  7. primus

    primus Member




    isn't it god the creator of everything? so when i say "everything" would that includes good and evil?

    so anong pagkakasala na dyos mismo ang gumawa? ano sa palagay mo?
     



  8. No sir. Nobody wins and no exact proof that either side is flawed. Kasi, that's the problem. We don't have a standard. Parang ISO sana na pwedeng pagbasehan. Science cannot explain how the Universe started and how it is created. And at the same time, the believers doesn't have a convincing evidence that somebody created it. Hehehe...

    Thank you, Sir. :)

    Ako ba yan? hehehe.. Salamat, Sir. :)

    Sarap ng discussion lalo't nandito si Sir Primus. :)

    We are taught Sir, that if you do not believe in God, even if you have spent a good life on earth, you wouldn't see the Kingdom of God. It's either believe or not believe = heaven or hell. :)

    Ahhmm... pasagot po ah. :) If you meant evil as the evil person, yes God created him. But God did not create the person to become evil. It's the persons personal choice. It's the liberty that God has given man.

    But if you meant evil as the deed of a person, God did not create it. It is a willful act of his creation. Like you for example. You have the liberty to believe Him or not believe Him. It's the liberty that the Lord has given you. :)
     



  9. @Sir Primus
    \
    I've read somewhere from your posts (can't quote it, masyado na mahaba :))na what is the common mistake in the paintings or drawings of Adam and eve.

    Is it the navel, Sir? :)
     
  10. AaronICK

    AaronICK Member




    No comment na din lang ako. Iningles na ako eh, hehehehehe.


    At least you end your post with YOUR PICK. Whatever it is that you're saying, I'm quite contented with where I am right now. That's what really matters. Should I complicate things further? NOT AT ALL. Life is already hard as it is. If I leave myself with only two choices, as you claimed, that's because life shouldn't be THAT complicated. Unlike an atheist's choices which is so much complex, hilong talilong na ako. Minsa, yung choices, dadagdagan pa. Minsan, paiikut-ikutin pa. Eh simpleng simple lang naman dapat. I don't wanna go there...

    Thanks for your insights, by the way.
     
  11. primus

    primus Member




    bakit pag ang isang relihiyosong tao ay gumawa ng isang magandang bagay - sinasabi nito na dahil sa gabay ng diyos ang may gawa nito?

    at bakit pag ang tao ay nakagawa ng isang maling bagay - ang sinasabi nito ay iyon ay "freewill" ng tao?

    bakit may bias?

    IF god did not create the evil deeds and it is a willful act of his creation? then who created man? isn't god a loving-god? isn't god a just god? isn't god a perfect god? if god is a perfect god, then why give a man a liberty to choose not to believe in him alone? why create a man that is capable of doing evil deeds in the first place?

    if you were god and you want your creation just to believe in you only, would you create a man with a choice not to believe in you? would that not fall into a contradiction of your own creation?

    basically you are creating your own enemy? if you are a loving-god and an all powerful god - would you create something that will go against you? and if you created a man that will go against you then why you make them in the first place and make them suffer?

    - the creation of good and evil created by a single "supreme being" is a contradiction of being a "supreme being"

    Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? - Then he is not omnipotent.
    Is he able, but not willing? - Then he is malevolent.
    Is he both able and willing? - Then whence cometh evil?
    Is he neither able nor willing? -Then why call him God?


    yes. you got it right.

    would it be correct to say that our belief is a result of our upbringing? therefore, your believe in god is based upon your surrounding and the idea of the god you believe in is as just as the same as the god who gives you that idea of it?, therefore, your god is not the same as the gods of other people?

    and where is the idea of god came from?
     
  12. primus

    primus Member




    atheist choice is not complex, it is only to show you that *we* as human being has more choices than what the scripture would always tells us. - in other words, scripture does not give you more option, it is either you believe in god and you go to heaven or not to believe in him and you will go to hell.
     
  13. isponj_bob

    isponj_bob Member




    not so fast, sir. the moment you touch a keyboard, or ride a tricycle or watch TV you are benefitting from science. do you still call those products as theories still, despite that you use it in your everyday living. well, but if you still, i dont know what's your definition of theories and its materialisation.

    well, if that is the one that will give my inquistive mind with the most acceptable explantion, then why not. And I would rather accept to be a descendant of bacteria if that would give the most acceptable explanation rather than just blindly accept and believe that I came from DUST with a god-given life.
     
  14. Unwired

    Unwired Member




    I wonder who made this folktale....hehehe

    they will accept that we human, our origin was made by some super being in a snap and came from two myth being...where evidence exists that we are a product of evolution that took million of years...
     
  15. isponj_bob

    isponj_bob Member




    this is not folktale as far as i know. this is being preached by many religious sects. for one, diba sinasabi ng Catholic na 'nagmula sa alabok, babalik sa alabok'. ewan ko kung ano pa ibang ingles ng alabok maliban sa dust, o kung figure of speech man ito, kindly elaborate.
     
  16. j0sefuz

    j0sefuz Member




    how can science explain human's unique DNA structure? bakit walang magkapareho? pati na rin ang snow.. walang snowflake na magkakapareho ang structure..
     
  17. palevelmode

    palevelmode Member




    Naitanong ko na yan before, sinagot na rin ni primus yung point nya. I was looking forward on things to come sya naman looking backward on things behind. We are totally in different world.

    But the good thing is believer will enjoy both of worlds. We enjoy science as the fact that God Exist, and we enjoy our fellowship with God as he gives more knowledge about HIM through science :)
     
  18. palevelmode

    palevelmode Member




    These guys are the one the you should avoid as theist or whatever we can say about believing in God or gods.

    I studied theology before, I encounter different domination and belief(of course my experience is limited dito lang sa 'pinas) For me it was easy to refute other belief since some of their belief are based on bible(even Muslims, Pentateuch has its part in Qur'an). Worst debate I ever had aside from this one when I am in hospital(with my mother) having locked with a muslim guy, 7 day adventist, Iglesia ng Dios, and A Chinese couple. But I was happy I prove my God is the only GOD and they all agree about it.

    But the conversation with an atheist is like this.

    Theist: Let's talk about God.

    Atheist: Ok, I'm fine with that but let's talk about god without God.

    Theist: No. I have my bible in me it is the only proof I have that there is a God.

    Atheist: Ah bible? That's boring let's talk about god without bible.


    You an never win an argument with them. The same goes even your belief is satanism.
     
  19. isponj_bob

    isponj_bob Member




    meron, one has been fooled in his entire life.
    It's nice to believe. but beliving without questioning is... dangerous.
    even if at the end i meet god, he has a lot of things to explain. i can ask:
    Has he known everything all along? He already knows my fate even before I was born.

    you know what, maaring ito yung sinasabi sa genesis na mula nung papakain ng dalawang hubo-tabo yung mansanas, sila ay namulat na sila pala ay hubo tabo. kung hindi kaya nila tinipak yung mansanas, hindi sila aware na may bosero? i don't wanna be fooled my entire life. i would like to believe but i would want to scrutinise things too.

    sabi ni Socrates: Unscrutinised life is not worth living.
     
  20. palevelmode

    palevelmode Member




    Either way, you will get your answers at the end. Well as for me I choose to be fooled for my entire life.
     
                                 

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